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	<title>Comments on: The Case for Value Based Fees in &#8220;Stubborn&#8221; Professions</title>
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	<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/</link>
	<description>Architect of Professional Communities® &#124; Alan&#039;s Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Rob Nixon</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2748</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Nixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2748</guid>
		<description>John - I do not use time sheets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John &#8211; I do not use time sheets.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shaver</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2745</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2745</guid>
		<description>Alan,

I have a question for Rob Nixon pertaining to his comment #16.

Rob, that&#039;s awesome about the project.  What a great example of how moving from billable time to a value-based pricing model changes your entire world for the better.  My family totally agrees with yours.

Here&#039;s my question:  Since you are using a fixed price approach for this project, will you still use timesheets on it?  I&#039;m curious to know you thoughts on whether timesheets would still provide value to you or do you think it&#039;s best to throw that part away too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>I have a question for Rob Nixon pertaining to his comment #16.</p>
<p>Rob, that&#8217;s awesome about the project.  What a great example of how moving from billable time to a value-based pricing model changes your entire world for the better.  My family totally agrees with yours.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my question:  Since you are using a fixed price approach for this project, will you still use timesheets on it?  I&#8217;m curious to know you thoughts on whether timesheets would still provide value to you or do you think it&#8217;s best to throw that part away too.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2706</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2706</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d better stop staring at Michelle Pfeiffer&#039;s photo and get moving....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d better stop staring at Michelle Pfeiffer&#8217;s photo and get moving&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shaver</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2703</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2703</guid>
		<description>John,

And attend as many of Alan&#039;s workshops as you can.

As the great musician Robert Fripp likes to say:  do you want to look at a picture of the girl or go on a date with her?

Not that I&#039;m calling Alan a girl!  But you get the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>And attend as many of Alan&#8217;s workshops as you can.</p>
<p>As the great musician Robert Fripp likes to say:  do you want to look at a picture of the girl or go on a date with her?</p>
<p>Not that I&#8217;m calling Alan a girl!  But you get the idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2702</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2702</guid>
		<description>Process Consulting and The Unofficial Guide to Power Management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Process Consulting and The Unofficial Guide to Power Management.</p>
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		<title>By: John Felkins</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2701</link>
		<dc:creator>John Felkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2701</guid>
		<description>Graham,
 I know that is true! There are so many &quot;veteran consultants&quot; that claim it&#039;s impossible. It&#039;s funny that many of them are the ones still cold calling! 

Alan,
 I&#039;ve read Getting Started In Consulting and that&#039;s given me the frame work for my firm. What should I read to learn HOW to consult? Thanks.

John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham,<br />
 I know that is true! There are so many &#8220;veteran consultants&#8221; that claim it&#8217;s impossible. It&#8217;s funny that many of them are the ones still cold calling! </p>
<p>Alan,<br />
 I&#8217;ve read Getting Started In Consulting and that&#8217;s given me the frame work for my firm. What should I read to learn HOW to consult? Thanks.</p>
<p>John</p>
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		<title>By: Graham franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2700</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2700</guid>
		<description>John 

You can show significant value and an ROI to any consulting assignment.

Best thing that I have learned is Output not inputs......results not methodology.  It works for my clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John </p>
<p>You can show significant value and an ROI to any consulting assignment.</p>
<p>Best thing that I have learned is Output not inputs&#8230;&#8230;results not methodology.  It works for my clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2695</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2695</guid>
		<description>Fair enough, then don&#039;t skip ahead with the questions. Start with the basics. I&#039;ve written big books!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough, then don&#8217;t skip ahead with the questions. Start with the basics. I&#8217;ve written big books!</p>
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		<title>By: John Felkins</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2693</link>
		<dc:creator>John Felkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2693</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not kidding. I&#039;m just learning. I have just purchased your book Value-Based Fees. I&#039;ll go read and come back for my next lesson. I&#039;m not yet a &quot;going concern&quot;. I&#039;m in the &quot;figure out how to put food on the table&quot; stage. It would take a big book to hold all the stuff I don&#039;t know! I&#039;ve never even heard of Kirkpatrick but maybe that&#039;s a good thing! Thanks Alan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not kidding. I&#8217;m just learning. I have just purchased your book Value-Based Fees. I&#8217;ll go read and come back for my next lesson. I&#8217;m not yet a &#8220;going concern&#8221;. I&#8217;m in the &#8220;figure out how to put food on the table&#8221; stage. It would take a big book to hold all the stuff I don&#8217;t know! I&#8217;ve never even heard of Kirkpatrick but maybe that&#8217;s a good thing! Thanks Alan.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2692</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2692</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t teach you value based principles in blog commentary, you&#039;ll have to do some reading. But, briefly: You must be kidding. I don&#039;t believe in the arbitrary designation &quot;soft skills.&quot; Morover, if training, for goodness&#039; sake, isn&#039;t to change behavior to improve performance, what&#039;s the use of it? OD work is done to create improvement. What&#039;s the issue?

You have to ask the client: What improvement, why, and what&#039;s the impact? Impact can be qualitative or quantitative. The reason that HR and training departments are mostly worthless is that they pay no attention to value (output) only to the task of training people (input). That&#039;s also why Donald Kirkpatrick&#039;s &quot;four levels&quot; of training measurement, which they STILL talk about in the current issues of training magazines, is so infernally dumb, just as it was 40 years ago!

The only thing that matters is some kind of improved condition. And if you can&#039;t identify it, how do you know it&#039;s been created?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t teach you value based principles in blog commentary, you&#8217;ll have to do some reading. But, briefly: You must be kidding. I don&#8217;t believe in the arbitrary designation &#8220;soft skills.&#8221; Morover, if training, for goodness&#8217; sake, isn&#8217;t to change behavior to improve performance, what&#8217;s the use of it? OD work is done to create improvement. What&#8217;s the issue?</p>
<p>You have to ask the client: What improvement, why, and what&#8217;s the impact? Impact can be qualitative or quantitative. The reason that HR and training departments are mostly worthless is that they pay no attention to value (output) only to the task of training people (input). That&#8217;s also why Donald Kirkpatrick&#8217;s &#8220;four levels&#8221; of training measurement, which they STILL talk about in the current issues of training magazines, is so infernally dumb, just as it was 40 years ago!</p>
<p>The only thing that matters is some kind of improved condition. And if you can&#8217;t identify it, how do you know it&#8217;s been created?!</p>
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		<title>By: John Felkins</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2689</link>
		<dc:creator>John Felkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2689</guid>
		<description>While I agree with your assertion I don&#039;t see how to get to a tangible value with services such as organizational development or training. How can you generate hard numbers on services that improve soft skills?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with your assertion I don&#8217;t see how to get to a tangible value with services such as organizational development or training. How can you generate hard numbers on services that improve soft skills?</p>
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		<title>By: John Shaver</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2641</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2641</guid>
		<description>Yes, I understand and agree.  Acronyms should never be used in conversations with customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I understand and agree.  Acronyms should never be used in conversations with customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2640</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2640</guid>
		<description>I just hate acronyms the the average person wouldn&#039;t recognize and that don&#039;t really add to understanding, but tend to reduce it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just hate acronyms the the average person wouldn&#8217;t recognize and that don&#8217;t really add to understanding, but tend to reduce it.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shaver</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2639</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2639</guid>
		<description>Alan,

Yes, I completely agree with you concerning the two types of consultants.  It&#039;s all about the value created by the consultant.  The customer really doesn&#039;t care about anything else.

Regarding PKFs, I&#039;ve been reading and talking with Ron Baker quite a bit over the past 2 years and I picked up the term from him.  For me, it&#039;s a good description for anyone who is differentiating between selling a service and selling knowledge.  A consultant who implements ERP software is selling a service.  However, a consultant who adds value to their customer&#039;s business is selling knowledge and has evolved into a PKF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>Yes, I completely agree with you concerning the two types of consultants.  It&#8217;s all about the value created by the consultant.  The customer really doesn&#8217;t care about anything else.</p>
<p>Regarding PKFs, I&#8217;ve been reading and talking with Ron Baker quite a bit over the past 2 years and I picked up the term from him.  For me, it&#8217;s a good description for anyone who is differentiating between selling a service and selling knowledge.  A consultant who implements ERP software is selling a service.  However, a consultant who adds value to their customer&#8217;s business is selling knowledge and has evolved into a PKF.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2629</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2629</guid>
		<description>&quot;Professional knowledge firm&quot; is a bit grandiose for me. As my sole mentor, Ben Tregoe, remarked to a reviewer about one of his books in 1975, &quot;Calling what I&#039;ve done &#039;research&#039; is a bit of an overstatement I&#039;m uncomfortable with.&quot;

There are only two kinds of consultants: Those who think the input side is important, who stress methodology and bill by the hour; and those who think results are important who stress outcomes and bill based upon value contribution. The former are lucky to make $250,000, the latter make seven figures. The former are known for their implementation, the latter are known as thought leaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Professional knowledge firm&#8221; is a bit grandiose for me. As my sole mentor, Ben Tregoe, remarked to a reviewer about one of his books in 1975, &#8220;Calling what I&#8217;ve done &#8216;research&#8217; is a bit of an overstatement I&#8217;m uncomfortable with.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are only two kinds of consultants: Those who think the input side is important, who stress methodology and bill by the hour; and those who think results are important who stress outcomes and bill based upon value contribution. The former are lucky to make $250,000, the latter make seven figures. The former are known for their implementation, the latter are known as thought leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shaver</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2625</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2625</guid>
		<description>Alan,

I think one of the fundamental shifts in thinking that needs to happen in a Professional Knowledge Firm (PKF) is the realization that none of us are in control.  We&#039;re not in control of our employees, our customers nor our vendors.  Anyone who thinks they are has lost their minds!

Time sheets and billable hours give the illusion of control.  They attempt to control what cannot be controlled.

We trashed our time sheets and billable time almost 2 years.  Our customers are overjoyed.  They don&#039;t care how long it takes us to complete a project; they just want it done and they want it done effectively.

Notice that I said effectively and not efficiently.  A good consultant understands that effectiveness trumps efficiency every time.

So, my recommendation is to stop using tools that simply give the illusion of control and start using tools that provide predictive management as to whether a project is on track or not.

Concerning Warren&#039;s point:  of course the consultant should take the risks.  Why in the world would the customer take those risks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>I think one of the fundamental shifts in thinking that needs to happen in a Professional Knowledge Firm (PKF) is the realization that none of us are in control.  We&#8217;re not in control of our employees, our customers nor our vendors.  Anyone who thinks they are has lost their minds!</p>
<p>Time sheets and billable hours give the illusion of control.  They attempt to control what cannot be controlled.</p>
<p>We trashed our time sheets and billable time almost 2 years.  Our customers are overjoyed.  They don&#8217;t care how long it takes us to complete a project; they just want it done and they want it done effectively.</p>
<p>Notice that I said effectively and not efficiently.  A good consultant understands that effectiveness trumps efficiency every time.</p>
<p>So, my recommendation is to stop using tools that simply give the illusion of control and start using tools that provide predictive management as to whether a project is on track or not.</p>
<p>Concerning Warren&#8217;s point:  of course the consultant should take the risks.  Why in the world would the customer take those risks?</p>
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		<title>By: Graham franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2588</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2588</guid>
		<description>warren if the client wants to rescope the project halfway through...no problem I simply rescope the fee, after all we are partners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>warren if the client wants to rescope the project halfway through&#8230;no problem I simply rescope the fee, after all we are partners.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2587</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2587</guid>
		<description>Warren, You&#039;re thinking ALL wrong. This is based on a relationship and partnership with the buyer, not a vender and subordinated relationship. Your actual time spent is immaterial. You need to &quot;renorm&quot; your mindset. You&#039;re thinking life a vender.

You don&#039;t want to work the maximum time you have available. Also, if you&#039;re charging, say, $150,000, and you wind up working a week less or a week more than you estimated, who the heck cares? See Rob Nixon&#039;s post beneath yours. 

You need to read my books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren, You&#8217;re thinking ALL wrong. This is based on a relationship and partnership with the buyer, not a vender and subordinated relationship. Your actual time spent is immaterial. You need to &#8220;renorm&#8221; your mindset. You&#8217;re thinking life a vender.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t want to work the maximum time you have available. Also, if you&#8217;re charging, say, $150,000, and you wind up working a week less or a week more than you estimated, who the heck cares? See Rob Nixon&#8217;s post beneath yours. </p>
<p>You need to read my books.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Nixon</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2586</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Nixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2586</guid>
		<description>Alan
Your article has created a stir amongst my community as well. Thanks again for writing it. Not sure if I told you this but I just signed a $375K value based fees project. Before I met you and subsequently got into your material (2 years ago) I would have charged $50K for the same project. Your philosophy has changed my families life! We all say thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan<br />
Your article has created a stir amongst my community as well. Thanks again for writing it. Not sure if I told you this but I just signed a $375K value based fees project. Before I met you and subsequently got into your material (2 years ago) I would have charged $50K for the same project. Your philosophy has changed my families life! We all say thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Beam</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2585</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Beam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2585</guid>
		<description>I conceptually like the value-based fee model because it moves consulting from an earned income to a semi-passive income dynamic.  Leverage is created by breaking the direct link between hours worked and dollars earned.  On the other hand, value-based fee seems to be a form of fixed-price contract where the contractor (consultant) bears the risk of the unknowns.  How do you mitigate this risk to ensure reasonable compensation relative to the actual time spent?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I conceptually like the value-based fee model because it moves consulting from an earned income to a semi-passive income dynamic.  Leverage is created by breaking the direct link between hours worked and dollars earned.  On the other hand, value-based fee seems to be a form of fixed-price contract where the contractor (consultant) bears the risk of the unknowns.  How do you mitigate this risk to ensure reasonable compensation relative to the actual time spent?</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2584</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2584</guid>
		<description>Shout it out!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shout it out!!</p>
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		<title>By: Graham franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2583</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2583</guid>
		<description>value based fees is the best piece of advice I have received on the mentor programme.  Don&#039;t make it complex follow Alan&#039;s advice 1. Objectives? 2. Measures of Success? 3. Value to the Client in a relationship of equals? = Value Based Fees.  My own fee income is 50% up after adopting the 3 simple questions plus options in the proposal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>value based fees is the best piece of advice I have received on the mentor programme.  Don&#8217;t make it complex follow Alan&#8217;s advice 1. Objectives? 2. Measures of Success? 3. Value to the Client in a relationship of equals? = Value Based Fees.  My own fee income is 50% up after adopting the 3 simple questions plus options in the proposal.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2581</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2581</guid>
		<description>Right on!! A lot of those &quot;veterans&quot; are not very successful and are actually afraid to admit they&#039;ve left all that money on the table for all those years. Most solo practitioners are not good business people, which is why my communities are so attractive, because I treat this as a business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on!! A lot of those &#8220;veterans&#8221; are not very successful and are actually afraid to admit they&#8217;ve left all that money on the table for all those years. Most solo practitioners are not good business people, which is why my communities are so attractive, because I treat this as a business.</p>
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		<title>By: John Felkins</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2580</link>
		<dc:creator>John Felkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2580</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m new into consulting but really see the wisdom in the the value based fees approach. Most of the &quot;veterans&quot; I run into think I&#039;m crazy when I talk about this. Once I&#039;m successful they won&#039;t! Now, about that....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m new into consulting but really see the wisdom in the the value based fees approach. Most of the &#8220;veterans&#8221; I run into think I&#8217;m crazy when I talk about this. Once I&#8217;m successful they won&#8217;t! Now, about that&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2577</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2577</guid>
		<description>You really need to read my stuff carefully. You establish a relationship, then objectives, measures, and value WITH the buyer. Simple as that. You&#039;re treating it as if it&#039;s an adversarial relationship. I can&#039;t teach you value based fees in the commentary section of my blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really need to read my stuff carefully. You establish a relationship, then objectives, measures, and value WITH the buyer. Simple as that. You&#8217;re treating it as if it&#8217;s an adversarial relationship. I can&#8217;t teach you value based fees in the commentary section of my blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2576</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2576</guid>
		<description>Then I assume that is all up front based on estimates

because if they don&#039;t - no (or tiny) value = no or tiny revenue</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then I assume that is all up front based on estimates</p>
<p>because if they don&#8217;t &#8211; no (or tiny) value = no or tiny revenue</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2575</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2575</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re being way too analytical. It&#039;s art and science. If the client doesn&#039;t follow your recommendations, then it&#039;s not your problem is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re being way too analytical. It&#8217;s art and science. If the client doesn&#8217;t follow your recommendations, then it&#8217;s not your problem is it?</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2574</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2574</guid>
		<description>Sigh - 

Count me in - I will find the books - 

I see the concept - but assigning a &#039;value&#039; in any particular project must be difficult.

Because it assumes that the client will follow your recommendations on a particular improvement that **may** save x hours per week .....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh &#8211; </p>
<p>Count me in &#8211; I will find the books &#8211; </p>
<p>I see the concept &#8211; but assigning a &#8216;value&#8217; in any particular project must be difficult.</p>
<p>Because it assumes that the client will follow your recommendations on a particular improvement that **may** save x hours per week &#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2570</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2570</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s right—there has to be manifest advantage for the buyer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s right—there has to be manifest advantage for the buyer.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Greenberg - Good Computer Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2569</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Greenberg - Good Computer Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2569</guid>
		<description>Hmm, good point - I&#039;ll do it.  I should re-read what I&#039;ve already read, and then read the rest.  Especially if I can learn to compete with what everyone is used to.  

Reminds me years ago when I almost hired a guy to help me with some marketing who tried to sell me (poorly) on his value-based pricing.  I had never heard of it, was completely confused about how he worked, and thought he was way over the top expensive. Obviously NOT how to do it.  He should read your stuff too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, good point &#8211; I&#8217;ll do it.  I should re-read what I&#8217;ve already read, and then read the rest.  Especially if I can learn to compete with what everyone is used to.  </p>
<p>Reminds me years ago when I almost hired a guy to help me with some marketing who tried to sell me (poorly) on his value-based pricing.  I had never heard of it, was completely confused about how he worked, and thought he was way over the top expensive. Obviously NOT how to do it.  He should read your stuff too.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2568</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2568</guid>
		<description>You should read my books and listen to my CDs. The fact that everyone in your field is doing it wrong makes you more valuable. I have accountants, architects and even attorneys billing based on value. Join my Forum or Mentor Program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should read my books and listen to my CDs. The fact that everyone in your field is doing it wrong makes you more valuable. I have accountants, architects and even attorneys billing based on value. Join my Forum or Mentor Program.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Greenberg - Good Computer Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2567</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Greenberg - Good Computer Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2567</guid>
		<description>I think the trick is getting the clients to understand that.  Problem is, everyone else is billing by the hour (especially in my field) so if I come in with value-based pricing it&#039;s tough for them to compare.  I would definitely like to perfect that though - I&#039;m far from there at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the trick is getting the clients to understand that.  Problem is, everyone else is billing by the hour (especially in my field) so if I come in with value-based pricing it&#8217;s tough for them to compare.  I would definitely like to perfect that though &#8211; I&#8217;m far from there at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2566</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2566</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree. You can become obsessed about time, and some people work at different rates than others. The key is to focus on RESULTS, an output, not time, an input. You know if you&#039;re working well when you produce desired outcomes, such as a sale, a completed project, a new book. 

I wrote Getting Started in Consulting, the most successful Getting Started book in Wiley&#039;s history, and it&#039;s in its third edition. My conclusions come from over a decade of mentoring solo practitioners at all levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree. You can become obsessed about time, and some people work at different rates than others. The key is to focus on RESULTS, an output, not time, an input. You know if you&#8217;re working well when you produce desired outcomes, such as a sale, a completed project, a new book. </p>
<p>I wrote Getting Started in Consulting, the most successful Getting Started book in Wiley&#8217;s history, and it&#8217;s in its third edition. My conclusions come from over a decade of mentoring solo practitioners at all levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Burke</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2565</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/the-case-for-value-based-fees-in-stubborn-professions/#comment-2565</guid>
		<description>I agree with your concept of value-based billing, with one caveat: you mentioned the professionals who keep meticulous track of their time.  The two tasks (tracking hourly time and billing hourly time) should be kept separate and addressed differently.  

More experienced consultants - especially those solo practitioners - may not need to track time as closely, since they have a good feel for the scope and cost of particular services.  Others just getting started, however, greatly benefit from knowing just where all those hours go.  Even if you don&#039;t bill that way, you need to know that your hours are being fruitfully spent and that when all is said and done, you are making the best, most efficient use of your time.  

In a way, it goes back to the social networking argument.  If you know you spend X hours per week on MyFaceTwitterSpaceLinkedBook with a resultant benefit, that produces a metric against which your alternative endeavors can be measured.  Drucker strikes again...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your concept of value-based billing, with one caveat: you mentioned the professionals who keep meticulous track of their time.  The two tasks (tracking hourly time and billing hourly time) should be kept separate and addressed differently.  </p>
<p>More experienced consultants &#8211; especially those solo practitioners &#8211; may not need to track time as closely, since they have a good feel for the scope and cost of particular services.  Others just getting started, however, greatly benefit from knowing just where all those hours go.  Even if you don&#8217;t bill that way, you need to know that your hours are being fruitfully spent and that when all is said and done, you are making the best, most efficient use of your time.  </p>
<p>In a way, it goes back to the social networking argument.  If you know you spend X hours per week on MyFaceTwitterSpaceLinkedBook with a resultant benefit, that produces a metric against which your alternative endeavors can be measured.  Drucker strikes again&#8230;</p>
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